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What Happened to The Joker in "The Dark Knight Rises"? We Have the Answer

Posted: July 26th, 2012 by WorstPreviews.com Staff
What Happened to The Joker in "The Dark Knight Rises"? We Have the AnswerSubmit Comment
While making "The Dark Knight Rises," Christopher Nolan stated that out of respect for Heath Ledger, he will not mention the Joker in the movie. While that's understandable, leaving the Joker out confused many fans who expected to find out what happened to the villain.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

There were rumors that if Ledger didn't die, he would have played a big part in "The Dark Knight Rises," which likely would have been a completely different movie. We never got that movie, but also didn't get an explanation why criminals like the Scarecrow escaped from prison, but not the Joker.

To get some answers, here is an excerpt from Greg Cox's novelization of the film, which hints at where the Joker was during the events of "The Dark Knight Rises":

Now that the Dent Act had made it all but impossible for the city's criminals to cop an insanity plea, it (Blackgate Prison) had replaced Arkham Asylum as a preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham's sole remaining inmate. Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure. Not even Selina.

Source: NuketheFridge


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Displaying 49 comment(s) Profanity: Turn On
MarshallErikson writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 7:32:22 AM

Lame answer to an important question. The most important character of the series and he just gets a byline in the novelization of the film?? I understand the actor passed away, but the character has become bigger than the actor. I don't think Heath would have wanted his performance brushed under the carpet so to speak.
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 7:39:15 AM

hmm...i'm getting the vibe that a certain movie site editor didn't like TDKR and trying to trash it every day for the sake of the holy heath ledger and his overrated performance in TDK...
Avirex writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 7:54:45 AM

People would have been undoubtedly disappointed by any appearance or mention they could come up with. Acknowledging Joker might have detracted from Bane. The clown painted elephant in the room.
boogiel writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 7:59:50 AM

What Happened to The Joker in "The Dark Knight Rises"? We Have the Answer

OMFG...Who f*cking care?
YoungChris writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 8:06:40 AM

@boogiel I DO ...
Recumbentibus writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 8:16:08 AM

"What Happened to The Joker in "The Dark Knight Rises"? We Have the Answer!"

Your answer is that he was completely cut from the movie because the actor died. To that I say: NO sh*t SHERLOCK!!!
BadChadB33 writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 8:17:24 AM

IDC, what I wouldn't mind of seeing was what the other idea was for the movie.
Fightclub1 writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 9:38:20 AM

@rambo I'm with you man
SACdaddy writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 9:48:04 AM

Well that clears up everything....or actually nothing at all. Thx WP.

Here we go again with another Prometheus like set of answers that "MAY BE" what the director intended but all sound like bullsh*t.
SACdaddy writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 9:50:58 AM

How easy would it have been for Nolan to just take 5 seconds to say that in the film? But NOOOOOO, Heath Ledger's ghost might rise up and butt rape Chrissy for mentioning his character's name, and we couldn't have that now.
venomex writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 10:01:57 AM

joker's too busy being the new conductor for the above ground train system
trailertrash writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 10:31:54 AM

WP has the answer ?? Doesn't sound like it to me
j-man writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 11:48:01 AM

@rambo
Agreed their mate
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 12:08:46 PM

The Joker’s fate remained a mystery and left to our imaginations as he simply was not included by Nolan for reasons of respecting Heath’s death. But that does not explain the character's fate in this fictional world. I think at the very least Nolan could have included a quick reference to the Joker as part of the story. Where it became obvious occurred when Bane read Gordon’s letter of “the truth” televised to all Gotham citizens. Batman took the fall, but it was key that the Joker drove Harvey from being Gotham’s shining White Knight transformed into something monstrous. Joker was locked up in Arkham, while Bane freed all those incarcerated at Blackgate Prison under the Dent Act. To have Joker freed and running loose in Gotham where Bane’s forces occupy control might have swayed from the plot. As Joker operates outside of the League of Shadows his agenda in TDK was to cause mass panic and chaos. Whereas Bane/Talia’s agenda was to terrorize Gotham and eventually destroy it by atomic detonation. Arguably Joker would want to continue his reign of chaos and not wish to see Gotham levelled. Interesting that Nolan brought back all principal characters or provided reference to them eg. Harvey’s frame photo at the funeral, Rachel’s letter, Ras’ ghost and most visibly Crane on the judge’s stand which was essentially a one liner (still it was good to see him). To introduce Joker mid way through would have been a colourful distraction at best.
Kurskij writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 12:28:20 PM

Translation: "The f*ck would I know?!"
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 12:49:21 PM

@Kurskij - a complex trilogy and not a quick answer my friend. Yes, we will never know because Nolan made a conscious decision not to include the Joker. Merely speculation based on the fictional facts.
bandolero999 writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 1:32:44 PM

his best perfomance was in BROKEBACK mountain
BlackDynamite writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 1:38:19 PM

They could have easily explained it with a scene showing them releasing all the inmates,with Bane stopping a henchman from opening the last one, and then zooming into the door window and seeing a smile painted onto the wall in blood, implying that The Joker was at BlackGate, but not even Bane wanted to let him loose.
minkowski writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 2:34:42 PM

Good god, it was eight years later after TDK. Anything could have happened to the Joker, and because Nolan and company haven't offered an 'official' explanation, instead of fighting over an answer which doesn't matter on iota, use your imagination, if you have one, to arrive at your own conclusion.

He could have died. He could have been locked up outside Gotham in a STATE or Federal prison. He very well may have escaped. Who the f*ck knows, and really, eight years later, in fictional time, who the f*ck cares?

Either report the news, WP, or don't, but stop making up bullsh*t.
Kurskij writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 2:34:58 PM

@mr.blonde

Wasn't aimed at you, mate - rather the article.

Your explanation makes a lot more sense
bspence writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 3:04:32 PM

like mink said its 8yrs later. as soon as blackgate prisoners were released i assumed he was at arkham. considering thats where he was put almost everytime. people need to get off the jokers d*ck. batman has more interesting villains then a lot of superheroes that could be used.

and to badchad. i remember reading when riddler was involved as the villain nolan said had heath lived he wouldve returned as joker as an arkham inmate. but when batman couldnt stop the riddler (who was suppose to be a darker more violent version of the joker) batman was going to somehow get the joker to help him understand the riddlers mind and how it works so that he can defeat him. but since heath passed the idea was obviously scrapped. and the riddler was scrapped after that. catwoman was the only thing they kept. and she was also going to appear in bats3 before the riddler/joker plot was estasblished. before TDK came out there was another rumor that penguin and catwoman would be the villains in the third film. remember reporters asking phillip seymour hoffman if he'd be interested in playing the penguin and he tried to play it off like he was going to pass on the role had it been offered to him.
bspence writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 3:09:30 PM

and i forgot the riddler was going to be set up when detective sarah essen (who was also a character involved) hated batman for the death of harvey dent and against gordons orders hired dr edward nygma to debunk the identity of batman so she could put the vigilante "murderer" behind bars. but nygma goes mad with the task and becomes riddler. after that essen had to find batman and ask for his help after probably learning from gordon what really happened at the end of TDK.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 3:10:23 PM

@Kurskij - cheers bud.

Thinking further I don't believe Ras Al Ghul was ever mentioned in TDK (and no one bitched about that). This one just sticks out like a sore thumb because of all the tie-ins to the Harvey Dent backstory and the reason he became Two-Face. As an accomplished Director and gifted storyteller I would have appreciated Nolan's explanation. But it is clear that Nolan took what ever elements he deemed necessary from Batman Begins (like the League of Shadows) and TDK (Harvey's legacy) and conveniently discarded the rest (Joker). His artistic license as a filmaker I guess.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 3:32:14 PM

@Badchad and Bspence -

As far as other ideas, it might have been interesting to include a scene whereby Bane kisses Batman. I know gay but hear me out. Call it fan interpretation but how this “kiss of death” scene might have played out is that Bane has just beaten Batman to a pulp and finally broken his back. He then removes Batman’s broken mask to reveal Bruce’s face which is in agonizing pain. Bane then slowly disengages his own mask which causes him to have difficulty breathing from lack of the oxygen mixture. Incidentally, here the audience gets a chance at seeing Tom Hardy with the two central character’s masks removed and identities revealed. Bane forcibly delivers a kiss which further causes Bruce to cry out in defeat from being completely owned. Bane restores the breathing apparatus of his own mask and walks away with the broken Bat-mask which he discards into the sewers (the scene we saw). Either that or the exchange occurs in the prison when Bruce is lying there incapacitated. Bane delivers the “then you have my permission to die” speech followed by the kiss of death. Such a scene might have added further to creepiness of Bane’s character. But I’m sure it would have disturbed many young viewers. Such an unexpected exchange could only occur at a pivotal moment. And knowing that Bane spent a better part of his life in the prison, it kind of makes sense that he would have only known the company of men. I know, gay but I think it would have added another dimension to this adult superhero film. Still weird that he was revealed as Talia’s protector and by the time we learned this, the action and story played out so quickly that we didn’t get a chance to process and consider the possible pedophile angle behind Bane.
mehh0408 writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 4:10:21 PM

He got raped
trailertrash writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:05:47 PM

^ Then that would be the Tears Of A Clown who will be hurting so bad.
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:07:22 PM

the big black guy sure put a smile on his face...
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:08:02 PM

and by that i mean batman
SACdaddy writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:12:41 PM

Ok I know there's a lot of mixed feeling out there about this movie and a lot of questions that went unanswered, but there's one thing that has really been bugging me more than anything. For real fans of this world that Nolan created, did this movie really stand a chance of succeeding without the Joker or Two Face?

He did such a good job of building their characters and their effect on the world around them that a film without them seems quite pointless. For Nolan to revert back to the much weaker less established plot of Begins seems like regression not progress. Batman is only as good as the adversary he faces. When you reduce him to such a physical and emotional level to fight a brute like Bane (who is all strengeth no substance) , you neuter the super intellect and cunning nature of Batman himself. I hated that Batman didn't have to think his way out of this dilemma. It takes away from the main reason Batman can survive as a superhero with no powers. Without the Joker testing him mentally or Two Face challenging him morally, he's just another dumbass in a funny costume who can be physically broken. I can go deeper into this but I'd like to hear from others first. Did anyone else have this nagging problem with the film or was it just me?
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:28:43 PM

@sac

I respect your opinion but I disagree.I thought batman was acting very stupid in TDK and the way he dealt with the joker was ridiculous which brings me back to the famous party scene...the joker holds rachel...and batamn has all the time in the world to neutralize in a smart way the joker and finish the story really fast...and what does he do instead? 'then you're gonna love me...' really???couldn't he be just quiet and shoot one of his gadgets on the joker's neck or his leg?
so bottom line the joker was not that smart,it was just that all the other characters around him were really stupid.
Batman Begins was a superior film by far to TDK,it focused much more on Bruce Wayne and every villain in this movie was brilliant especially Liam Neeson in the first and last act of the movie.
TDK for me was a boring crime drama that didn't look anything like a superhero movie.
TDKR was a return to form...I liked the fact that bane was super strong and was basically much more dangerous to Gotham then the joker could have ever been.
to conclude i give BB and TDKR 9/10
TDK gets a 6/10 on a good day.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:33:35 PM

@Sac - I posted on the Joker above. There would have been too much going on to include him midway thru the film with Gotham under Bane's seige. As for Two-face, he died. But the legacy that Dent left behind was included i.e. those prisoners incarcerated under the Dent Act were sprung by Bane. Also the whole Gordon confession letter centred on Dent's downfall into Two-face (and as I mentioned earlier it would have been nice to include a nod to Joker as the underlying reason instead of blaming Batman). I personally liked the wrap around of tying in Bane's backstory with The League of Shadows, Talia and Ras. For me this was a satisfying conclusion which came back full circle. It also took what it needed from TDK, mainly Dent's backstory as the reason for Batman laying low all these years. Yes, Bane was a brute and Talia was really the brains of the master plan to level Gotham. And they were fulfilling the mission that Ras had initiated in Begins. For me we have never seen Batman be subjected to that much physical harm. He has always come out of his fights relatively unscathed. The armour coupled with his skills as a trained fighter were always better than most of his opponents. However, here is the first time that those didn't matter. And Bruce's health and physical condition had deteriorated over those years. The Bane blugeoning is one that fans know of and fear (for the safety of our hero). It is a different perspective than having the Dark Knight face colourful characters like Joker and Two-Face. Also, I think it was deliberate to show John Blake as the character who rised from the police ranks showing good detective skills and anticipating Bane's movements. This gave Blake some substance to carry forward as the ending implies.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:39:41 PM

@Rambo - not to mention Batman and Rachel can survive a multi-storey drop, crash on a car, and just walk away trading a few lines like they were just on a date. Perhaps Batman's spine should have been shattered for the first time here. Still I liked TDK - but that scene was hard to believe.
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:46:13 PM

agreed...and if he survived the jump,why didn't he go chase the joker...he's up there in the building,he ain't going nowhere...
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 5:52:50 PM

@Rambo - Probably thought to himself better to live to fight another day. Batman likely had the wind knocked out of him and he needed to tend to Rachel's further safety. He knew Joker's intent was to kidnap/kill Harvey. And since Bruce had rendered Harvey unconscious and stuffed him inside a closet, he guessed Joker would leave the party frustrated and empty handed. Still would have to come back down the elevator which might have led to another confrontation. Yeah - I agree, unresolved and I think the scene cut to another situation in the movie.
trailertrash writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 6:02:49 PM

Damn i need to watch Batman Begins and TDK again, I can't remember either film at all.

I liked TDKR though, It just lacked any real tension in it's last 1/4, All seemed just a little obvious to me.
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 6:29:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS0u_uY-mSk&feature=related
Rambo writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 6:32:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQylInqNC-4
minkowski writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 8:09:53 PM

I need to watch TDK again, too, because none of it made a lick of sense to me whatsoever. And I understood Primer.
bspence writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 11:47:41 PM

@rambo your longer post summed up the 3 films almost perfect. batman begins and tdkr were great films in my opinion. tdk had way too many unvelievable things that happened for a film thats suppose to be a "realistic" film. and all the characters were dumed down majorly except maybe alfred and gordon.
SACdaddy writes:
on July 26th, 2012 at 11:54:17 PM

Ok Rambo and Mr. Blonde thx for your insight. I respect both opinions, but.....

In my book you're not doing Mr Nolan any favors, but you are getting me closer realizing what really bothers me about this series.

Rambo: As a person who grew up through the years reading Batman here and there I guess I got use to his unmatched intelligence and his dependence on it. Its his greatest equalizer. Even when fighting the superhuman, no brawn (even Superman) was ever a match for his brain. The Joker was the only foe that consistently hung with him or at least kept him guessing long enough to really f*ck up his life or those around him (ie killing Robin). The Joker always presented him with some insane choice that looked hopeless on the surface, even though Batman usually found a way to get through it. Even at his best, Batman always had an advantage or the Joker, he was crazy and Batman was smarter. In there lies, my problem with Nolan's Batman I guess. He's smart but purposely not that smart. Its like Nolan decided that no one could be that smart in the real world so Morgan Freeman's character was introduced to take most of the intellectual burden off Batman. Other than a couple of flashes of intelligence he really doesn't display his most famous trait in any of these films. Like you said, the first film concentrates Wayne becoming Batman physically and psychologically. He's too young and fresh at the vigilante game to even have developed the smarts that he relies on later in life. The second film deals with the burden of what he's become and the responsibility that comes with the job (remember he's already looking for a replacement). The third act deals with ahhhhh.....closure I guess. For some reason it puts his character back at square one where he's running into the frey without even thinking things through or considering the consequences of his actions. Its like he's learned nothing over the years but how NOT to deal with pain and regret. Without his intelligence he really is reduced to an angry man in a funny suit, nothing more. I'm sorry, that's not good enough for me. At least in the second film he's somewhat tested just trying to figure out what makes the Joker tick, but he still never has to outsmart him. This is not the Batman I know and love. I understand grounding the character physically but grounding him mentally is bullsh*t.

Mr. Blonde: I understand that the Joker would have narratively thrown off the third movie, at least the way Nolan structured it, but I also know that he and Two Face were originally supposed to be a major part of the plot. The end of TDK set up the story in that direction. Batman is forced to take responsibility for his actions, or at least thats how the film ends. But after 8 years we find out he really hasn't accepted any responsibility for the world he created. The streets magically clean up after the Joker's rampage because of a new law that's ultimately based on a lie, so Batman never has to face more super villains born from his own brash sense of justice and vigilantism (like the Joker). In the long run we see him sulking like a child over a loss of p*ssy rather than dealing with that fact that her life wasn't as important as the oath he took to protect the city. That's not Batman!!! That's the guy in the funny suit again. More importantly that's Nolan showing a big lack of consistency in his story. You say the return to the Ras Algul plotline brings the story back full circle, but I say there's actually no place for it by this time in the series. Why does anyone want to blow up Gotham anymore after its already been cleaned of it corruption? Who care if its all based on a lie (no one but Gordon and Wayne know that anyway), its clean! Blowing up the city is not a fulfillment of Ras' dream if the city is already corruption free. Batman fulfilled his dream already just in a different way, in fact he tells Liam Neesom that several times in Begins. If anything the whole plot to blow up the city is just revenge against Batman. Talia is so blinded by revenge (for some reason even though she hated her father) that she doesn't even realize the fusion reactor she helped create could act as a signing beacon of peace for the rest of the world to follow eliminating corruption her father sot to destroy in its wake. In the long run this cheapens the first film by corrupting the intent of it main antagonist. So I ask, why even go there? It turns this installment of the series basically into James Bond The World Is Not Enough, and I'm sure we all feel the same way about that movie.
Rambo writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 2:12:59 AM

@sac

i didn't read the comics so most likely what you are saying makes sense...and I agree,Batman was pretty stupid in this trilogy,mainly the second and third movie.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 5:19:49 AM

@Sac – Agreed James Bond’s The World is Not Enough TWINE has a similar set of characters established for the hidden agenda of TDKR. As the plot developed with TDKR we learn of Miranda Tate and her beef on pumping in so much of her fortune into Wayne Enterprises for funding the dynamic clean energy project. But remember Ras Al Ghul’s line in Batman Begins saying something like the League of Shadows has been around for decades slowly biding its time for the right moment to strike at the heart and bring down morally corrupt cities to deliver their level of justice. Assuming Wayne Enterprises performed proper background checks on all of their employees including major shareholders, it would have taken Miranda a considerable amount of time to acc*mulate her wealth and establish legitimate background as an investor. A credible person of high stature worthy of becoming a stakeholder to sit at the table with others at Wayne Enterprises. Of course such a background check failed to discover that Miranda a.k.a. Talia Al Ghul and had a hidden past stuck in a pit who was only sparred because she owned her own personal pit bull a.k.a Bane. Then again she might have been some eccentric billionaire that Wayne Enterprises just took in because she strongly advocated the clean energy program which was engineered to harness the power of fusion. I’ll get back to this one later. Maybe Wayne Enterprises takes in any strays as long as they have the money. It would be unwise to do so, but Miranda’s pumping in funding can sometimes dodge questions about intention. As long as she maintained her facade of being an insistent poster-child for clean energy goals no one questioned her. Good on Bruce for doing his own pumping with Miranda as he seemed happy when the two shared a moment of intimacy by the fireplace. Bruce needed it after the hurtful confrontation with Alfred. So our perception of Miranda is that she comes off clean and innocent with good intentions.

The other major character that came off that way was Harvey Dent in TDK. Bruce proclaimed at his fundraiser “I believe in Harvey Dent”. And he even confessed to Rachel that Harvey is that White Knight that Gotham has been looking for. A Knight who was capable of locking up so many of Gotham’s crime lords in successful Police roundups without ever wearing a mask. With TDK Bruce was closer at finding a replacement using Harvey which would facilitate Bruce trying to get back into the arms of Rachel. Little did he know that Rachel would not keep her end of the deal as she wrote that heartbreaking letter which Alfred kept in confidence. Bitch to Rachel and bastard to Alfred for keeping such secrets locked away from Bruce. But the wise old butler sought only to protect Bruce from further hurt as he did all his life. Arguably Bruce is a grown man and should learn to deal with rejection. But as we painfully saw Bruce takes rejection very close to heart and shut himself from society to wither away like a reclusive hermit. This is not the Batman we know but a man with human flaws. Rejected by the City of Gotham he has sworn to protect and guilt ridden over the deaths of Rachel and Harvey. This is a man who needs to rise.

Getting back to fusion power, such a marvellous piece of engineering could not be developed overnight but after years and years of research and development. Lucius Fox seemed to be the brains of that project and it was decided to be scrubbed upon realization that this energy could be modified at the core to become a nuclear weapon in the wrong hands. That is some blueprint. But really most things can be transformed into a weapon especially highly complex pieces of machinery whose original designs were intended to improve upon mankind’s condition. I am guessing that Miranda knew this as well but was slowly biding time. Knowing that most massive companies like Wayne Enterprises would have aggressive board members like John Daggett they used Bane as the heavy hand to trick Daggett into believing he could become majority shareholder of Wayne Enterprises. Bane’s mercenaries secretly infiltrated Gotham’s construction industry and strategically mixed in explosives in the concrete of its major bridges, stadiums, buildings and roads. Next, the Stock Exchange hold up was intended to bankrupt Bruce. Again the deception was by Miranda which set Bruce on a predictable path to relinquish his hold and request her take control of Wayne Enterprises thereby keeping it away from Daggett. By this time Daggett was removed out of the equation by Bane snapping his neck off camera.

Similar to Renard in TWINE, Bane is perceived as the mastermind superhuman anarchist behind the whole plot whose agenda appeared to be causing destruction of Gotham as an ousted member of the League of Shadows. Similar to Elektra King in TWINE, Miranda is perceived as the innocent beautiful woman who is wealthy and seemingly aligned to the good cause. But secretly forges a lifelong bond which was casted in prison with Bane. This bond later forms the allegiance to carry out the mission initiated by her Father Ras. The relevance of Bane is somewhat diminished after the reveal of Talia. However, running themes of “deception” and the “initiated” which were originally spoken by Ras in Begins were echoed by Bane as he physically taunted Batman.

Lastly, why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up. This saying goes a long long way to explaining how Bruce could have completely let himself slide and fall into depression and alas find good reason to pick himself up and rise as the Batman. It cannot be a sudden rise without stumbles and such as major stumble was the confrontation with Bane. His rise must be one painstakingly worthy of the Batman. He must rise from a pit of hell or exile. Purposely Crane’s presence as Judge and self proclaimed jury was intended to reinforce the theme of either death or exile to guilty rich Gotham citizens. The theme echoed with Bruce’s fate when he whispered to Bane “why didn’t you just kill me?” to which Bane explained the reason for wishing Bruce be cast off from society was to witness events unfold in banishment hence exile. But of course granted Bruce permission to die after he witnessed the destruction of Gotham from his own personal television conveniently hooked up on the prison walls.

Slow and methodical. Biding time for both Bane and Talia. League of Shadows stuff. Nolan in my view is a genius and a gifted storyteller who takes care patience to create a fictional world that we can invest our attention, beliefs and hearts into. He has successfully forged an engaging story of Bruce Wayne and Batman. This is a tale of tragedy, inspiration, heroism, flawed, martyrdom, rise and redemption. The three films serve extremely well to complement one another.
SACdaddy writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 9:00:46 AM

Lol thanks for the recap, but I already saw the movie. All that and you can't explain why Talia wants to destroy the city. If The League wants to strike at the heart of corruption in the world she should probably find another city thats a little more f*cked up than the post Dent Law Gotham. Its completely devoid of the corruption and evil Ras set out to destroy, so why Gotham? Was Talia not paying attention the last 8 years? Was she working too hard on the fusion project and her evil plot to notice the streets being cleaned of all the criminals? And why would a girl who's father let her grow up in a prison and who excommunicated her (much older) boyfriend follow in his footsteps? Or is she following at all? Does she really want to fulfill her father's dream or does she actually want to corrupt it by blowing up a GOOD city because she hates him? The latter would have been much cooler imo but the movie never really explains either.
SACdaddy writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 9:07:59 AM

This "well crafted" story has more plotholes than swiss cheese. Do you really count it as genius if only 2/3 of it works? Genius is in the details and Nolan lost focus (you say with TDK, I say with TDR).
SACdaddy writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 9:13:27 AM

But as I said before, I do respect your opinion and dedication to the series. You just see it differently than I do.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 10:42:25 AM

Ok, I will try the abridged version. Bane was excommunicated from the League of Shadows. And Talia always remembered what Bane did for her to help survive prison. Hence their lifelong allegiance is forged. Although Batman killed her Father she still wanted to continue his mission, the systematic destruction of Gotham. She maintained allegiance to the League despite being locked up earlier in her life. It is not explained why, but from Begins we see Ras’ training regimen for Bruce is not an easy one. We can only speculate that he pushed his daughter to similar physical and mental limits before allowing her to be inducted into their brotherhood. To Talia it didn’t matter that the criminals were locked up – they still resided in Gotham a city the League has targeted as socially and morally decayed in its fibres. Call it similar to the Mob contracting a hit on a Target. Once targeted, always targeted. And that Bane learned the truth behind those criminals incarcerated under the Dent Act a falsified piece of legislation further proved there was corruption in its legal apparatus. Talia and Bane took their time to position their chess pieces before making their move on Gotham. You can say a lot of things seem contrived in this film but it takes time to formulate a good plan before execution. Time to map out access tunnels to spring an inescapable trap for the Police. Time to secure significant building contracts in order to work in the proper concrete and explosive composition to set within Gotham’s very foundations. All that construction did not occur over night. Just like this plan was not conceived overnight. Time for Talia to become a significant shareholder within Wayne Enterprises. Time to R&D the fusion reactor. Yes, by the time the plan was ready to unfold the majority of criminal elements were removed from Gotham. And arguably it was cleansed more so than ever. But it was still corrupt in their eyes. And the Contract still had to be met. Talia also held a personal vendetta against the man who killed her Father. The Batman needed to pay with his life. And since Batman claimed to be the protector of Gotham it was double justice in Talia/Bane’s eyes to first make him suffer bodily pain and then witness the collapse of the City which would crush his soul. Yes, we may see the film differently. There is always Swiss cheese to be found but not everything needs clear resolution. The time it took to tell a greater story is what I appreciate and admire in Nolan. People will always offer differing opinions and that is fine. I can respect that from one lifelong Batman fan to another.
SACdaddy writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 3:13:33 PM

I hear ya Blondie but it still seems pretty illogical that Talks would want to clean a city that had already been cleaned. Sound like something that would appeal to the Joker's sense of humor. Spend countless amount of time, money, and effort building something up just to tear it down. She could have cleaned the world of much of its corruption by completing her fusion project and using it as intended for good. But we'll just agree to disagree.
Mr. Blonde writes:
on July 27th, 2012 at 5:08:53 PM

@SAC - Fair enough. Speaking about the Joker's nutjob sense of humour, recall he tied Lau (the mob's HK accountant) at the top of a large stacked money pyramid - then slide off the side. Then more dramatically set it on fire! Think of all the arms, or lethal smile gas cannisters or bag of laughs he could have bought with all that money. He really demonstrated Alfred's great line "Some men just want to watch the world burn". Occasionally the criminal mind defies certain logic. Especially when they are insane, or passion is involved, or personal vendettas or cults...well, you get the idea.

Good talking to you on this one. Not often someone on WP willing to take the time to engage in healthy debate without firing off the usual insults.
Telico writes:
on August 10th, 2012 at 12:57:19 PM

@SACdaddy yeah your right about many things, I think blonde is probably a real blonde, as i posted elsewhere asking these questions is not something that happened over time, they formed as the film unfolded. Some people either feel stupid for not have thought of these themselves so they defend the film with out thinking it through, and some people are just dumb.

This doesn't stop the fact we are all allowed our own opinions like SAC said, think the difference is some people are just willing to listen to other people properly and then adjust their opinions after, some people think they are right all the time and can't see reason.

Loved Inception, hated TDKR, loved Alien, hated Prometheus..... don't love the director/actors for the sake of it (they're not your friends), don't accept bad films you deserve more!

and more to the point... why should anyone respect a junkie who died in the toilet? new actor with a similar voice (makeup could have done the rest)

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